Tuesday, July 12, 2005

Can God bless church

I been hearing a lot lately about the "traditional" church and how it has been manufactured by man. Many people believe that God cannot bless organized churches. This concerns me. Not because I am part of one but because I believe that God can work through the intentions of man.
You look at a church that is very structured. Is God there? Can we judge that? I came from a very structured Lutheran church and it set my foundation for my spiritual journey. I learned some great hymns, I had an excellent pastor, Sunday school was great, and they had a wonderful summer school. And yes God was there. Why are we so quick to judge? Older churches have a bad reputation of being spiritually dry. But at what standard? Our standard? Older churches with older people are very Spirit filled. It may not be overpowered by signs and wonders but look at the fruit in the lives of the people in these churches. The men are full of integrity, the wives honor their husbands, the children sit still in the service. They tithe regularily.
I think we get too caught up on what God is doing in our own lives and think that everyone needs to be there. This is not the case. This is pride. God leads people as he wishes. Besides if older churches were non existent, if charasmatic churches were non existent, if house churches were non existent. Where would the body of Christ be. The way I see it all are Gods design. We may have messed up in the process but you cant tell me that God does not bless different church types. We need to be together!!
What would things look like if the "older churches, traditional churches, charasmatic churches, house churches, came together to worship the one that seperates them in the first place? I for one would love to see that type of unity!!! I think we would see things that our very dreams could not imagine. It would also stop a lot of the finger pointing. And we would FINALLY be one as Jesus and the father are one!


Benjamin said...

You're right; It all goes back a mindset of "Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mark 7:3) Yet, this is a two-sided coin. For, as they should not say that an old-fashioned church is dead because of it's hymns, liturgy, and style, we shouldn't try to construct a strict formula and think to exalt it as "the" way to God--only He is that.

If opinion counts for anything, I think it boils down to balance. We need not just the pomp of the young, but the piety of the old. We don't need just the enlightenment of our elders, but the energy of our youth. Knowledge coupled with zeal is a powerful sword, and something we all need to seek. That is why the Lord is said to be the possessor of knowledge, as well as a consuming fire.

If we would focus on Christ, as you stated, the meaningless chatter would fade away in the glory of Him. "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" (Ps. 133:1) May we ever seek to know Him, which is the greatest wisdom and the deepest passion. God bless all His children. Ciao.

flowerlady said...

My parent's pastor had a neat thing to say on that. Perhaps there are so many variety of churches because there is such a variety of people with a variety of needs. They can't all be met by one structure, thus God, in His love and mercy allows for our diversity in worship styles and structure. I think perhaps this is wisdom.

BTW what's with all the dead space after a post, you have to scroll down quite a ways to get to the bottom of a single post. What's up with that?

rene the rugrat said...

Interesting, but dangerous thought there flowerlady but how do fit the Metropolitian Community Church into that philospohy?

Second, and again flowerlady, unless CWG has fixed things I do not know what you are talking about - considering all the blogger problems you have you must have a weird computer.

CWG said...

Yes the balance between young and old is very important. Very well spoken..er...written.
Your mom's pastor seems like a wise man. I like the word mercy. It really does hold water in this context.
BTW:It's not just your puter regarding the space in between my post. It shows up on mine but not at the office??? I'm baffled on that one!!
What is the Metropolitian Community Church? I'm going to go google it and see what I find!

CWG said...

OK Rene we need to define the church...not "a" church....the church. Metro Community church has obviously believed a lie and have turned thier ears from truth. I speak of the true church of Jesus Christ. Churches that make Jesus the Lord of thier lives. I dont believe we can fit churches that do not follow the truth of scripture into flowerladies philosophy. (when I googled, I went to Toronto)I'm not sure what the rest of the organization is like but I didnt like the fruit of the Toronto church.

rene the rugrat said...

True, but unless they have changed their doctrinal position they are evangelical and allowing for that they are reaching a segment of the population that you probably alienate without even meaning to.

And what is more important, the fact that people first come to faith in Christ or that they abandon their lifestyle?

CWG said...

"And what is more important, the fact that people first come to faith in Christ or that they abandon their lifestyle?"
That they realize that what they are doing is sin, and through the revelation of the Holy Spirit turn to the Lord Jesus Christ for true repentance and real salvation.

It is the fact that they stay in thier lifestyle that gets them into trouble. Salvation is not a get in free card. Salvation is realizing that you cannot live without the very saviour of Jesus Christ to save you from your sin. If we do not submit ourselvesd to the Lordship of Christ, then we are still living in the flesh and not truly making him Lord of our life. Many people can give a gospel message. It would be like me committing audultry and creating a ministry to support other audulterers. Basically condoning thier sin.
Any way you know the truth to this answer, you don't need me to answer it for you!

rene the rugrat said...

I am not defending the position of the leadership and yes, I do believe the leadership's "got some s'plain'in to do". But we come to Christ as wretched sinners and it is the Holy Spirit who decides what sins are dealt with when.

If that denomination (if I may be so bold) is able to bring men and women (that you inadvertantly alienate) into fellowship with God, even if those men and women are singed by the flames of hell, who are you to judge them.

Sin is sin is sin but we pick and choose who we will exercise grace to.

And think I will leave it at that. We can discuss this further off-line if you would like but this is already getting cumbersome.

CWG said...

Agreed we need not go further. However I dont take a personal stand! I take a look at what the bible is saying.